Talk:Timeline
Do you think it's too much to do multiple "eras" for QFG1, 2, 3, etc? In reality I'd say only the QFG2 and 3 eras have much going on outside of the games worth listing in the timeline, but still. StoneFrog 18:36, March 21, 2010 (UTC) That is to say, since the series only spans about a year, we'd be having every event relative to previous ones and they'd all be indented under the year QFG0. Would look kind of clumsy, if you ask me. StoneFrog 18:48, March 21, 2010 (UTC) This is a general timeline of the "confirmed dates" mentioned in the games. Either in back stories, or through dialogue. Obviously how many weeks you actually play in the games differ depending on the game. Like for example being able to play for as long as you want before actually starting the Rite of Rulership in QFGV. Whereas in QFG2, the timings are forced, events will happen even if you aren't there to stop them, and if you don't stop them, Iblis will rise. So you have to be careful to do everything within that set amount of time.Baggins 18:51, March 21, 2010 (UTC) :Oh, and once we have all the dates listed, we can figure out formatting. This is just initial work. As for 1 month travel from Willowsby to Spielburg, that's a reference from Authorized guide. I seem to recall there were some other specific by the week mentions of time on what he was doing during that journey between Willowsby and Spielburg in the pass, but I don't have my copy of the book for the specific references. :The Authorized Guide gives references to how much time passes during the events of each game, but again I don't have my copy of it, to quote the dates.Baggins 18:55, March 21, 2010 (UTC) : Given that each game has it's own article on the Wiki, rather than listing the events that take place during the game shouldn't we just provide a link to the page? For instance, instead of saying "on his 17th day in Shapeir the Hero joins a caravan heading for Raseir" we could just say "Events of Quest for Glory II: Trial by Fire"? There's enough other things going on during the course of each game leading in to the next one(s) that the year 0 is going to be pretty wild as it is, y'know? We have to, for instance, put in King Justinian's assassination at about the same time as QfG4 is going on. On a similar note, does anyone remember the time frame of the first attempt to summon Avoozl? That's biggest backstory we really have and it really needs to go on the timeline! (So does the first attack of the Dragon of Doom and the Djinni War and Baba Yaga's arrival in Spielburg but I don't recall any of those dates! Epic fail!) Grahamburger 19:30, March 21, 2010 (UTC) :For Avoozl, we only know that Piotyr is Dmitri's grandfather, and his fiancee was pregnant with Dmitri's father during Piotyr/Erana's battle against the Cultists and Piotyr's eventual death. I just kind of guessed the 65 year gap, assuming people generally marry/have children in their 20s in Mordavia, and assuming that Dmitri is in his late 30s or early 40s. StoneFrog 20:21, March 21, 2010 (UTC) Umm the QFG 2 was one of the few games that had specific days for certain events, especially ones tied into the prophecy. Characters mention specifically that one of the elementals will attack in a "weeks" time for example, IIRC. So those kind of dates are the kinds that should be on this page specifically. That kind of informatin can also appear on the game page as well. But this page is for complete time references.Baggins 19:56, March 21, 2010 (UTC) :I agree that QFG2 has the majority of the time-critical events, so it shouldn't be too bad to leave them here. As Baggins said, the timeline is supposed to be a continual flow of all events, though we don't have to include smaller details. I think the arrival in Raseir is pretty important, though. I got the "Day 30" measure when I loaded my QFG2 saved game from right before being teleported out of the Forbidden City. It was Day 29 in the Forbidden City, Day 30 when I arrived in the Palace plaza. StoneFrog 20:21, March 21, 2010 (UTC) ::Well there are not essential references like the day Sam came into the valley, but because they are specific time references should be mentioned. Another one would be the day Anna disapeared, what was it 17 years before the events of QFG4?Baggins 20:26, March 21, 2010 (UTC) Years So once we are able to put togethr a timeline based on all the references made during the games, and those made in the Authorized guide, I wonder if we'll find out that things don't fit exactly on a year, maybe be a little short of a year, or will go over a year. We may find that the math doesn't match up, or that seasons don't match up to normal earth months exactly. We know that most situations take place in northern hemisphere (except maybe tarna). Also must consider that, we know timings of days, months and years, are equivalent to the 7 day week, 12 month, and likely 365 day calender year on earth. Note that on regular year, last half of winter, and spring fall at the start of a year, and that autumn and first half of winter fall at the start of a year.Baggins 19:09, March 21, 2010 (UTC) : Any inconsistencies we find though can be explained away with the inconsistencies of time on Glorianna. The question Please sign your post. Well I'm curious as to where the Coles talked about time all over the planet occurding different in different places? What was their exact quote?Baggins 19:58, March 21, 2010 (UTC) : I'm sure you've seen it, it's the same source for the various references that was up on the Wikipedia article, so obviously we're not using it as an actual canon but it's used to explain the anachronisms scattered throughout all of the games and the evolution of races such as the Katta and the Liontaurs. "According to Lori Ann Cole, a force wave hit Earth during 1 BC which split the world in two parallel realities. While our part evolved as we know from history, the time on our parallel Earth did not advance in a stable time pace, which explains the anachronisms found in the games. There was a diversity of progress of the civilisations in Glorianna and some remained in ancient times (Marete),middle ages (Spielburg), while others evolved into Victorian times (Mordavia); all civilisations co-existed together, with flavours of modern anachronisms. The Force wave also influenced some animals that started to evolve rapidly, into sentient species, like the Katta and the Liotaurs." I think it's basically just an "easy-out" kind of solution. The question I was mentioning up above (sorry about that, I got interrupted and forgot I was writing anything there) is whether or not we wanted to try to find the actual interview or where ever it was stated, since it's starting to seem like this info is necessary to getting a complete picture of the world. (PS I officially hate Wiki's ridiculous misbehaving when it comes to copy & paste, getting that quote on here for you was basically the most ridiculous, time-consuming thing I've done all week.) Grahamburger 20:51, March 21, 2010 (UTC) ::Ya, i've seen that. The main issue I have with it seems it can be interpreted in different ways. You interpreted in literal time, as in clocks move faster in one part of the world than another (think King's Quest's Daventry vs. nearby Faerie Woods). I.E. if you entered one part of the world, you could be there for hours, but walk out and it would have been months in another part of the world. ::I personally think the explanation could also just mean that time moves normally (it has one single time pace, but different than on earth's), however the changes to world were enough to speed up innovations in different parts of the world than others, or that some civilizations never actually fell and lived on beyond their real world counterparts. So that as new civilizations appeared they coexisted with older ones. Think basically Sid Maier's Civilization world. However, it wouldn't matter where you are in you would exist at the same time as any other part of the world except for maybe with differences of time zones (greenwhich, pacific standard, etc), as well as hemisphere seasonal differences. Just normal clock style time zones (none of that scifi time dilation involved). ::Finally it could I suppose be a reference to the fact that time literally moves faster in the games than it does in real life. Unless you push time forward, time exists in the game about half a minute for every hour (I'm guestimating here, haven't actually timed it). Basically like the clock in King's Quest IV.Baggins 22:54, March 21, 2010 (UTC) Calendar I was wondering if we know how the days and months are named and occur in Gloriana. I'm almost certain I once heard "Octember" somewhere in one of the games, but that's it. StoneFrog 20:30, March 21, 2010 (UTC) :I think there were some "jokish" names, but also straight out of the regular real earth name list. Sunday gets mentioned in QFG2, if you try to eat food at the inn on a sunday, you are given plain ol hash. The QFG1 manual mentions Wednesday and Tuesday. QFG4 manual mentions, that Amon Tillado died in the dreary month of "October".Baggins 20:34, March 21, 2010 (UTC) ::In Shapeirian time, QFG2 occurs during the "month of the Serpent", and "year of the Djinn", and year before was the "Year of the Spear". Emir was kidnapped during the month of the Serpent, of the year of the Spear.Baggins 23:24, March 21, 2010 (UTC) : Let's not forget that different cultures may have different calendars. I think there's a far amount of that going on in the series as well. Grahamburger 07:06, March 22, 2010 (UTC) ::Sure, the Liontaurs, describe years as the "turning of the sun". Now if there are any differences in lenght of year in a culture, who knows. There is nothing really to confirm it. Oh, and stonefrog, Octember, is mentioned on the message board in Adventure's Guild back in QFG1. Its in the remake, don't know about earlier versions.Baggins 08:43, March 23, 2010 (UTC) :::Oh ya, Cranium talks about lonely Friday nights, lol.Baggins 23:14, March 23, 2010 (UTC) occurrencesElsa Hmm, ok seems to be a timing issue here. She's 18 according to one bit of dialogue. She was kidnapped 10 years before. That would make her about 8 when she was kidnapped, Wolfgang, even implies she was kidnapped when she was 8. Yet Yorick says she was still at the castle when she was 9, she had been turned away by the Sword Master, when she wanted training. Though I guess depending on the timing, she could have been kidnapped when she was 9, just after that event with the weapon master.Baggins 13:41, March 22, 2010 (UTC) : I was going to say, that all depends on when her birthday is, it could work out perfectly fine. If her birthday is after the spring, or at least the part of the spring you are in Spielburg for, it works out fine... ten years but her 19th birthday just hasn't happened yet. Grahamburger 15:04, March 22, 2010 (UTC) ::Yet, the game places her as being both 8 and 9 when she was kidnapped in dialogue, LOL. Its close issue, and yes it might work. Someone would have to figure out the math.Baggins 15:07, March 22, 2010 (UTC) Maybe she was kidnapped right around her birthday and those who weren't as close to her thought she was still eight? I mean, Wolfgang's fairly senile he might miss something like that. :P Grahamburger 15:11, March 22, 2010 (UTC) :::Well, actually he was pretty close to her, he was one of the Baron's close circle of friends. He is one of the few characters that remembers interacting with the girl. However, yes, he is senile. Just doing a subtraction of 10 years from 18 also hits 8 (but that would all depend on which season her birthday hits on for it to land directly on 8). The about 18 date comes from one of the guards I think, if anything its possible the guard was off on his estimation.Baggins 15:16, March 22, 2010 (UTC) ::::I believe Karl is the one who said Elsa would be about eighteen. In continuation of the fast-aging joke, Elsa also looks way too old in Dragon Fire, even for some insane Germanic barbarian woman. StoneFrog 20:28, March 22, 2010 (UTC) : Unlike some of the guards, I would say Karl is a reliable source for her age, given that he was present at all of the major -- the curse being laid, the disappearance of Elsa, and the disappearance of Barnard. He's got a pretty solid grasp on everything that's happened so I would think he knows how old she is as well. Grahamburger 21:49, March 22, 2010 (UTC) 65 year So the 65 year date isn't official? Guestimates shouldn't be on the timeline. If you want to leave it as notes at the bottom fine, but we should avoid conjecture.Baggins 20:10, March 22, 2010 (UTC) : I could've sworn there's a number of years ago cited in the game, I'm gonna look for it now. Grahamburger 21:43, March 22, 2010 (UTC) ::Ya, I seem to recall there being at least a rounded figure showing up, somewhere.Baggins 23:24, March 22, 2010 (UTC) : I've gone through a few Let's Plays and I didn't see anything about it, so it must be an obscure reference (but I'm glad I'm not the only one who remembers it!) I was thinking something like 80 years ago. A Google search for Avoozl has also helped very little, although AllExperts.com claims that the cult tried to summon Avoozl "about 50 years before Shadows of Darkness", though that sounds a little too recent for the amount of time that's supposed to have passed if you ask me. Grahamburger 06:11, March 23, 2010 (UTC) Anna's memories Ok, according to Dr. Cranium she disappeared 15 years before. Other people say the strangers moved into the castle 4 years before. Strangely Anna says she remembers talk of strangers moving into the castle when she was alive... She knows of this person as the Dark Master... Hmmm... Has the Dark Master been moving in and out of the castle at various points in history?Baggins 07:08, March 23, 2010 (UTC) : I hadn't noticed that before but you're right. I have no idea, but since everyone else in the game seems to confirm the 4 years I think that's got to be our canon. Maybe Anna disappeared 15 years ago, but didn't die until 4 years ago? :P Grahamburger 16:08, March 23, 2010 (UTC) ::The backstory explanation in official hintbook, which was written by the Coles, places the move-in date to 5 years ago... 4 years reference might actually be the start of the rain, 5 years the intended move-in date. Maybe, Dr. Cranium meant, she disappeared 5 years ago (15 was a typo). That would actually fit into his explanation, and others on how they say Nickolai is actually young, but the stress has aged him severely. If it was literally 15 years ago, then I don't think his aging would seem as abnormal really. However, it just shows you the Coles weren't keeping track of their dates and backstory in all the various sources, LOL.Baggins 16:55, March 23, 2010 (UTC) : That makes sense, let's go with that. :P Grahamburger 17:10, March 23, 2010 (UTC) ::Maybe Anna disappeared 15 years ago, but didn't die until 4 years ago?" :Maybe I wasn't completely clear, but actually the problem arises from the fact that Anna remembers talking to the rest of Mordavia's towns peoples about the strangers in the castle, and the Dark Master while she still lived in the town. So if Dr. Cranium was right about the 15 year date, that would mean that the strangers had entered the castle as early as 15 years ago. Though most town people never realized that people had moved in until about four years ago. But like I speculated, its possible cranium dialogue was a typo. Hmm, does the actor say "fifteen years"? Cause that would be funny.Baggins 19:10, March 23, 2010 (UTC) Ad Avis and 50 years Where was the reference to Ad Avis being bound to the master for 50 years?Baggins 07:37, March 23, 2010 (UTC) : While Katrina has you in the dungeon and she's explaining her relationship with Ad Avis (while whipping you), she says, "He challenged me to a magical duel, and lost. I made him my servant for fifty years until I grew bored with him and turned him loose." The part of this that confuses me is that if he was looking into Iblis for 70 years (like he says) and he was bound to her for 50 years.... how does he look so young? Maybe Katrina's servants don't age even before they become vampires? Grahamburger 16:06, March 23, 2010 (UTC) :so bound 50 years coexists while he was spending the 70 years reference? At least that's what backstory in QFG4 hintbook implies. That would mean its really the last 50 years of 70 years. The last half of the 70 years.Baggins 16:51, March 23, 2010 (UTC) : I guess that could make sense, and once he was free he went to Raseir and became the vizier, something he would not have been able to do while under Katrina's control. Still, even with just the 70 years he's extremely young looking. Grahamburger 17:12, March 23, 2010 (UTC) ::Could you put up the 70 year quotes from QFG2, so we can see how they compare to each other?Baggins 17:55, March 23, 2010 (UTC) Year of the Spear Hmm, ok according to QFG2, the Katta and Emir were kicked out 1 year before QFG2. In QFGV however, Marrak says they were kicked out "several years ago". Hmm, more explanation as to why several characters have aged? Is this a hint that some designers saw QFGV happening a couple of years after QFG2? ...or is QFGV occuring in the winter of 1 QFG (just before spring), thus being almost 2 years since the Year of the Spear? Hmm, and its about 4-6 months away from the 3rd month of the serpent (which began with their exile), so from the katta's perspective it might be seen that there plight has crossed into three seperate years (though not literally adding up to three total years of time). Another thing to think about if it helps, is that enough time had to pass between QFG4 and V for Punny Bones to reach Silmaria before the hero, do whatever, and then move onto other lands.Baggins 15:32, March 23, 2010 (UTC)Baggins 12:32, March 23, 2010 (UTC) : The problem I have here is that the opportunity for the largest gap between games is between QfG2 and 3. There's no explanation of any time passing while you're being teleported. If they hadn't said how much time had passed between the defeat of the Dark One and the Hero ceremony, I would've said maybe they waited a couple years so they could repair the castle and repair relations with the gypsies and then had the ceremony. But it says two weeks, so.... I just don't get it! Grahamburger 16:12, March 23, 2010 (UTC) : Does Marrak actually say they were forced out? I can't find the dialogue, but maybe it's possible they left of their own volition (as, I believe, Shallah did?) Grahamburger 16:30, March 23, 2010 (UTC) ::Yes, he says the Emir was overthrown and they were forced out several years ago. Its one of the first things he says, if you ask him about Shapeir, when you first meet him. ::In anycase we don't know how much time it takes for that spell to actually teleport a person from one place to another. For all we know it puts the person into a kind of limbo, until it successfully brings them to point b. It could be a slow process.Baggins 16:33, March 23, 2010 (UTC) :::Well in context of the Mordavian timeline, there would be approximately five years between QFGV and the Year of the Spear. That would fit the "several years quote".Baggins 23:01, March 23, 2010 (UTC) Cult of the Dark One Don't know if this helps, but according to QFG4 hintbook, Amon Tillado created his Cult of the Dark One, not long before Ad Avis started training under the Dark Master. It was unspecified amount of time after that, that Amon Tillado died, in a pool of his own blood (or choking on a cuttlefish) next to the Necrophilicon, and the Boyar took over.Baggins 17:12, March 23, 2010 (UTC) :Oh it gets even more complicated. Ad Avis was killed before Boris Stovich became the Gatekeeper of the Castle, before Tanya was lured to the castle, before the Dark Master summoned the rain storms... Yet in game know that Borish Stovich became gatekeeper about three years before QFG4. That means one of the Cole's time line of events, they actually consideer QFG2 has having occured about three years or so before QFG4...Baggins 17:14, March 23, 2010 (UTC) : That's deal-with-able because you could have stayed in the palace for a few years, I guess. Where do they say that Ad Avis was killed before Boris or Tanya came to the castle? I didn't notice that, both of them reference Ad Avis but neither said definitively that he was there when they came to the castle when I was looking at the Let's Plays. Grahamburger 17:24, March 23, 2010 (UTC) :: I always thought Boris referred to Ad Avis as a "stranger" and recent arrival to the castle. Certainly also, the Goon guards' cautious impressions of that "Adda Bees" guy would suggest he couldnt've been killed that long ago. If you are referring to the time spent in Shapeir after QFG2, wouldn't the Wages of War flashback by Aziza assure it was only 3 months? Of course, I don't know if Ad Avis was immediately resurrected by Katrina and transported or Mordavia or some time later - even though they say his body was never found, it's possible that Katrina just scraped him off the pavement and didn't reanimate him until later, or that nobody bothered to look for Ad Avis anyway. StoneFrog 17:31, March 23, 2010 (UTC) Graham, its in the Cole's Mordavia History of Events: A Time Line, I've made the article for your perusal. :"stayed in the palace for a few years" only three months, and few days, according to the game itself, actually. We literally have issues with the coles, designers, etc, not remaining consistent in the backstory.Baggins 17:49, March 23, 2010 (UTC) : I totally forgot Aziza said that. I never liked her anyways. :P Uhm, then maybe it was just a really long magic carpet ride? Or maybe transportation spells aren't immediate (though that doesn't make much sense cause they sure are in QfG5!) I'm really tempted just to find an email addy for the Coles (or PM Corey on the School for Heroes forums) and ask these questions. Grahamburger 18:04, March 23, 2010 (UTC) ::Funny part is the Cole's don't even remmeber half the stuff they put into the game, or put into the notes they even published. Corey couldn't even remember they incorporated Inja, Punjabi, and Surria into the game, and couldn't even believe they were "canon" until someone pointed out to him they were in the game. I honestly don't take anything they say with seriously, it only causes more headaches... Plus the fact that there own "personal canon" involves bits of their private rpg games, the School for Heroes, etc... Until you just accept that they contradict themselves, you won't feel happy. Besides the fact whatever you ask them now will probably be flavored with "hindsight", rather than whatever they were thinking back in the day... You know what they say about "hindsight"...Baggins 18:09, March 23, 2010 (UTC) :::Oh, and if adds any more insult to injury, the Coles state in the Shadows of Darkness Hintbook that they wrote all of the text messages in the game (150,000 words), put the messages into the game themsleves. They also wrote the two manuals, the hint book, and script for the 900 Hint Line. Basically for any discrepencies, its there fault, hah hah.Baggins 18:30, March 23, 2010 (UTC) Mordavian timeline Ok, I've used Mordavian timeline as a template, I've worked in dates from QFG2, and QFG4 since the Mordavian timeline pretty much locks down when QFG2 and QFG 4 takes place in relation to each other. I.E. QFG4 is present, and QFG2 occured 4 years before (based on references in the game itself). Knowing that its possible to adapt the references made in QFG2 by offsetting them by 4 years. I'm going to avoid trying to incorporate other dates from the games since we don't know how much time passed between them exactly. QFG1 and 2 for example could be a few days or even a few weeks between each other (based on implication that it took Abdulla about two weeks to reach Spielbur in the first place, and carpet probably takes less time). Obviously the amount of time between 2 and 3 is pretty straight forward, and that would be easy to incorporate into this version of the timeline. What we don't have a clue on is how much time passed for the entire events of QFG3, or if the Hero was stuck in some kind of magical limbo before he was deposited in the Cave in Mordavia.Baggins 20:44, March 23, 2010 (UTC) :Well I think there was one other 4 year quote, that I missed. Needs to be added to the Mordavian timeline. :probably needs to be some minor work comparing the 50 year and 70 year dates, to figure out exact particulars of both (make sure they are being put into the right place on the timeline).Baggins 22:48, March 23, 2010 (UTC)